So as I often like to do, I came home from work, kicked back in my chair, hit my vape, and began to do some research on the Defiance line. No biggie right ??? WRONG, and omg REALLY WRONG !!!
Apparently during the same time frame that Stanley was introducing the Defiance line circa 1929-ish, they were also producing a line of planes for another company and these planes look exactly like the Defiance planes except for the stamping on the iron. Another difference is that the Defiance line ends with the No. 5 size and the Revonoc line has at least a No. 6c in it. Here’s the pic that led me around this curve in my rabbit hole:
Following this twist a little more I discovered the Revonoc No. 6c on eBay:
and a No. 7c, but this is where I notice something…
The lateral adjuster is different, it is twisted instead of being splayed out… comparison, Revonoc on the left, Defiance on the right
Okay so my years of collecting aren’t a waste. I also notice that the castings do in fact seem different and I will try to find some pics for comparison, but the Revonoc castings are more in line with the traditional Stanley Bailey planes and not as rough as the Defiance planes. I think there might be some additional differences that can be used for differentiating them in the pattern of the frog itself if you look at the above pics and the others just above.
NOW… that being said… I have yet to come across a Defiance plane with the lateral adjuster twisted as they are on the Revonoc but apparently there is even more confusion because of this little “gem” sold at auction as a Defiance No. 1202 “Eclipse” Plane for $150.00
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/stanley-defiance-no-1202-eclipse-plane-616-c-3174b36863?
Do you see it ??? The twisted lateral adjuster. As I mentioned, I have not seen that done on any of the Defiance planes I own or have handled. Further evidence in this differentiation is that the HSB Hibbard Brand aka Revonoc was mostly produced by Stanley and were generic copies of the Bailey’s and individualized by stamping the company logo on the iron ( ref: Plane-Dealer.com ).
So, let’s see if we can apply what we know now and go waaaaaaay back and examine a some of the other Defiance/Eclipse No. 2’s that can be found online… it is prudent to add that just about anyone who has/had a Defiance or Eclipse No. 2 has some level of speculation as to the authenticity of it. Sure the parts are all interchangeable and I believe any number of irons could be used from a wide range of planes since Stanley was making planes for other companies.
Case No. 1 – The Plane Dealer Defiance No. 2 and Case No. 1a – Defiance Stamping on Iron
Case No. 2 – Montgomery War ECLIPSE Stanley Defiance 1202 ( now there’s a mouthful )
Case No. 3 – Vaughan & Bushnell MFG Co. No. 902
Case No. 4 – Stanley Defiance 1202 “Eclipse” as mentioned above
Here’s what I’m thinking given these all share a LOT in that the parts are in fact quite interchangeable and I have seen in several forums posts this morning that people actually do just say “grab this and slap it on there, same manufacturer” basically… but with Stanley producing generic planes of all different sizes, with the twisted lateral adjuster and with each company that purchased these planes from Stanley individualizing them by stamping their logo on the irons, wouldn’t it stand to reason that the existence of the the Defiance/Eclipse 1202 is a possibility?
To that I say both yes and no… and hear me out…
Yes, in regards to the Eclipse 1202. Justification for this being the fact that Stanley did produce generic planes for other companies to purchase and rebrand, and it has already been established that the Eclipse line sold by Montgomery Wards was just rebranded Defiance tools but I don’t think that’s the case anymore. All of the cases shown above have the twisted lateral adjuster on them which does seem to be the biggest difference aside from the logos on the iron. And here’s where I also say “no”…
The Defiance line was a direct product of Stanley and as I mentioned before, none of the Defiance planes I own have a twisted lateral adjuster. So if the difference comes right down to the lateral adjuster, and the Defiance line didn’t have that, where is the Defiance 1202 with the splayed lateral adjuster ??? Why isn’t there any catalog listing for it ???
Scrolling down the page of No. 2 sized planes shown on the plane-dealer.com you can clearly see several more examples of these generic planes with the twisted lateral adjuster and logo stamping but otherwise the planes are identical. This doesn’t even account for companies who just outright copied the Bailey style but it would also stand to reason that these knock-offs had some other variations such as varying dimensions, thicker or thinner irons, thicker or thinner castings, the list could go on to include the wood used for the knob and tote.
I am going to conclude that the existence of the Eclipse 1202 is a possibility and that the Defiance 1202 is a myth or “franken-plane” assembled from random parts at one point or another. I would need to see a Defiance 1202 with the splayed lateral adjuster, “Defiance” stamped iron, and the handle stamped “Defiance” AND see a catalog listing offering it back then before I would be even be remotely intrigued. Does this mean I’m giving up on looking? NOPE… cuz if you’ve followed me long enough you know by now how hard headed I can be when it comes to things.
I’m also going to add that this is not the end conclusion and if someone out there has a legit, certifiable catalog listing, showing the Defiance 1202 and they can also show me the splayed lateral adjuster I’ll change my opinion. I am no expert and this research has been done following a long night at work so yeah, who knows… maybe I should have taken that right turn at Albuquerque.. or was that a left ???
P.S. – would you believe this all started looking for something totally different ??? I was looking for a Defiance branded No. 27 rule lol and now my head hurts.